Superbowl 60 Patriots vs Seahags Discussion

We have elected officials pledging fealty to their home country instead of ours. I'd say it's a problem.You must be a hell of a lot younger than I am.I also have a bunch of older friends whose parents were 1st generation American or who came over from other countries. And they ALL assimilated to us. some 1st gen americans wouldn't even allow their native language to be spoken in their home. They were extra careful about their behavior around longtime americans, such that they would not seem foreign or reinforce stereotypes. these people that are coming in here now, illegally are not by and large assimilating to us. We are accommodating their religious beliefs. We're accommodating all of their practices. And we are over accommodating their languages. I am old enough to remember long before we used to have to press for english when we called a company. Let alone go walking in a home depot and see signs in spanish and in english.
I understand what you’re saying. A lot of people remember a country that felt more culturally uniform, and when things feel different, it can feel like decline.

But I don’t think it’s accurate to say immigrants “used to assimilate and now they don’t.”

Every major wave of immigration triggered the same concerns. Italians, Irish, Jews, Germans. There were foreign-language neighborhoods, newspapers, churches, and signs for decades. At the time, many Americans argued they weren’t assimilating either. History just smooths it out in hindsight.

What’s different now is scale and visibility. Businesses offer Spanish because tens of millions of Americans speak it. That’s market logic, not cultural surrender. Companies respond to customers. Governments provide interpreters because it reduces legal risk and increases compliance, not because assimilation has been abandoned.

On elected officials, actual divided loyalty would absolutely be a problem. But celebrating heritage or speaking another language isn’t the same as pledging fealty to another country.

It may feel like accommodation has replaced assimilation. But historically, America has always accommodated during transition and assimilated over time.

And when it comes to the NFL: they didn’t book Bad Bunny as a statement about national identity. They booked him because Latino viewership is one of the fastest-growing segments of their audience. It’s business. They’re chasing ratings, engagement, and global market share.

That’s not conquest. That’s capitalism responding to demographics.
 
I understand what you’re saying. A lot of people remember a country that felt more culturally uniform, and when things feel different, it can feel like decline.

But I don’t think it’s accurate to say immigrants “used to assimilate and now they don’t.”

Every major wave of immigration triggered the same concerns. Italians, Irish, Jews, Germans. There were foreign-language neighborhoods, newspapers, churches, and signs for decades. At the time, many Americans argued they weren’t assimilating either. History just smooths it out in hindsight.

What’s different now is scale and visibility. Businesses offer Spanish because tens of millions of Americans speak it. That’s market logic, not cultural surrender. Companies respond to customers. Governments provide interpreters because it reduces legal risk and increases compliance, not because assimilation has been abandoned.

On elected officials, actual divided loyalty would absolutely be a problem. But celebrating heritage or speaking another language isn’t the same as pledging fealty to another country.

It may feel like accommodation has replaced assimilation. But historically, America has always accommodated during transition and assimilated over time.

And when it comes to the NFL: they didn’t book Bad Bunny as a statement about national identity. They booked him because Latino viewership is one of the fastest-growing segments of their audience. It’s business. They’re chasing ratings, engagement, and global market share.

That’s not conquest. That’s capitalism responding to demographics.
I do not care if people who immigrate choose to speak their own language in their home or among their other friends of similar backgrounds. I don't care if they continue to observe their customs. I don't care about any of that. That's perfectly fine. It's only when they choose to impose those things upon us as things we have to accommodate that I have a problem.
The fact of the matter is that you're simply incorrect when you say that we always accommodated immigrants the exact same way we cater to them now. they would often have their own neighborhoods where they would live among their own ethnic groups so that they could assist each other. an immigrant used to have to be sponsored by someone to even come over here and the sponsor was responsible for that immigrant.

Quick search:
Americanization through legislation
The dominant response to the new diversity was to try to streamline it to promote assimilation into a view that defined American identity as English-speaking, Protestant, and Anglo-Saxon. The Americanization movement that emerged during these years focused assimilating the new immigrants into American society (Handlin, 1982; Hartmann, 1967; Higham, 1998; Hill, 1919). Between 1917 and 1922, more than 30 states passed Americanization laws, requiring those unable to speak or read English to attend public evening schools (Pavlenko, 2005).
...
Language legislation
Language became a central issue in the immigration debate, especially as World War I approached. The 1906 Nationality Act made the ability to speak English a requirement for naturalization, and the 1917 Immigration Act excluded aliens who were illiterate (in any language) from entering. In this climate, the use of languages other than English in school was un-American and undesirable. Speaking English became a condition for being a good (real) American. Several states passed legislation that prohibited the teaching of foreign languages to young children and 37 states passed laws making English the official language of the state during this period.

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Schooling for Immigrants
Educational policies directed at immigrant children during the early 1900s were primarily ones of neglect:

Students were submersed in English-only classrooms without any accommodations.
Newcomers were often placed in 1st grade classrooms regardless of their age, causing many early dropouts.
Intelligence testing in English led to the disproportionate placement of immigrant children in special education classes.
In some instances, minimal accommodations were made through separate classes. Educators in New York and other major cities began to recognize that special classes were needed to help students who did not speak English. William Maxwell from the New York Board of Education argued in 1912, "It is absurd to place the boy or girl, 10 or 12 years of age, just landed from Italy, who cannot read a word in his own language or speak a word of English, in the same classroom with American boys and girls five or six years old" (quoted in Berrol, 1995, p. 49).

"Steamer" classes
New York established "C" or steamer classes for students older than 8 years who had recently arrived. Also referred to as "vestibule" classes, steamer classes, which lasted for 6 months to 1 year, segregated students from native peers and focused solely on teaching oral English skills (Berrol, 1995; Brumberg, 1986). Students were punished for using their native language. Similar classes were implemented for immigrant children in Boston and Chicago.
 
I do not care if people who immigrate choose to speak their own language in their home or among their other friends of similar backgrounds. I don't care if they continue to observe their customs. I don't care about any of that. That's perfectly fine. It's only when they choose to impose those things upon us as things we have to accommodate that I have a problem.
The fact of the matter is that you're simply incorrect when you say that we always accommodated immigrants the exact same way we cater to them now. they would often have their own neighborhoods where they would live among their own ethnic groups so that they could assist each other. an immigrant used to have to be sponsored by someone to even come over here and the sponsor was responsible for that immigrant.

Quick search:
Americanization through legislation
The dominant response to the new diversity was to try to streamline it to promote assimilation into a view that defined American identity as English-speaking, Protestant, and Anglo-Saxon. The Americanization movement that emerged during these years focused assimilating the new immigrants into American society (Handlin, 1982; Hartmann, 1967; Higham, 1998; Hill, 1919). Between 1917 and 1922, more than 30 states passed Americanization laws, requiring those unable to speak or read English to attend public evening schools (Pavlenko, 2005).
...
Language legislation
Language became a central issue in the immigration debate, especially as World War I approached. The 1906 Nationality Act made the ability to speak English a requirement for naturalization, and the 1917 Immigration Act excluded aliens who were illiterate (in any language) from entering. In this climate, the use of languages other than English in school was un-American and undesirable. Speaking English became a condition for being a good (real) American. Several states passed legislation that prohibited the teaching of foreign languages to young children and 37 states passed laws making English the official language of the state during this period.

Back to top


Schooling for Immigrants
Educational policies directed at immigrant children during the early 1900s were primarily ones of neglect:

Students were submersed in English-only classrooms without any accommodations.
Newcomers were often placed in 1st grade classrooms regardless of their age, causing many early dropouts.
Intelligence testing in English led to the disproportionate placement of immigrant children in special education classes.
In some instances, minimal accommodations were made through separate classes. Educators in New York and other major cities began to recognize that special classes were needed to help students who did not speak English. William Maxwell from the New York Board of Education argued in 1912, "It is absurd to place the boy or girl, 10 or 12 years of age, just landed from Italy, who cannot read a word in his own language or speak a word of English, in the same classroom with American boys and girls five or six years old" (quoted in Berrol, 1995, p. 49).

"Steamer" classes
New York established "C" or steamer classes for students older than 8 years who had recently arrived. Also referred to as "vestibule" classes, steamer classes, which lasted for 6 months to 1 year, segregated students from native peers and focused solely on teaching oral English skills (Berrol, 1995; Brumberg, 1986). Students were punished for using their native language. Similar classes were implemented for immigrant children in Boston and Chicago.
Mike Tyson Boxing GIF by SHOWTIME Sports
 
I do not care if people who immigrate choose to speak their own language in their home or among their other friends of similar backgrounds. I don't care if they continue to observe their customs. I don't care about any of that. That's perfectly fine. It's only when they choose to impose those things upon us as things we have to accommodate that I have a problem.
The fact of the matter is that you're simply incorrect when you say that we always accommodated immigrants the exact same way we cater to them now. they would often have their own neighborhoods where they would live among their own ethnic groups so that they could assist each other. an immigrant used to have to be sponsored by someone to even come over here and the sponsor was responsible for that immigrant.

Quick search:
Americanization through legislation
The dominant response to the new diversity was to try to streamline it to promote assimilation into a view that defined American identity as English-speaking, Protestant, and Anglo-Saxon. The Americanization movement that emerged during these years focused assimilating the new immigrants into American society (Handlin, 1982; Hartmann, 1967; Higham, 1998; Hill, 1919). Between 1917 and 1922, more than 30 states passed Americanization laws, requiring those unable to speak or read English to attend public evening schools (Pavlenko, 2005).
...
Language legislation
Language became a central issue in the immigration debate, especially as World War I approached. The 1906 Nationality Act made the ability to speak English a requirement for naturalization, and the 1917 Immigration Act excluded aliens who were illiterate (in any language) from entering. In this climate, the use of languages other than English in school was un-American and undesirable. Speaking English became a condition for being a good (real) American. Several states passed legislation that prohibited the teaching of foreign languages to young children and 37 states passed laws making English the official language of the state during this period.
I don’t think you’re arguing that people shouldn’t speak their language at home. I understand that your concern is about public systems adjusting.

But I’m not convinced the adjustment is historically unprecedented.

Immigrant communities in the past absolutely clustered in ethnic neighborhoods and those neighborhoods often functioned semi-autonomously for decades. There were foreign-language schools, churches, newspapers, and even ballots in some states. Cities adapted in practical ways long before modern immigration debates.

It’s also true that sponsorship requirements used to be stricter. But that doesn’t mean there was no public accommodation, it means the scale and structure of immigration were different.

What feels new may be the visibility and institutional form of it: corporate language options, government translation services, signage in national chains instead of local enclaves.

That’s a shift in presentation, not necessarily a shift in the assimilation cycle itself.

The real question isn’t whether adjustment exists — it always has.

The question is whether today’s adjustment prevents long-term integration. And historically, the data still shows English dominance by the second and third generation.

So I’m not dismissing your concern. I just don’t think the evidence shows a fundamental break from the past.
 
By the way, I am not saying I approve of everything that was done to immigrants back in those days.A lot of it was inhumane and very prejudicial. I am saying that there is a nice middle ground between treating them like they're a different species and catering to them like they are royalty.
 
Damn, the NFL always wins. You went full shadow-conspiracy over a halftime set, and meanwhile the NFL got a week of headlines from a game nobody wants to rewatch. LOL
Where exactly did I go “full shadow conspiracy over a halftime set”?
 
By the way, I am not saying I approve of everything that was done to immigrants back in those days.A lot of it was inhumane and very prejudicial. I am saying that there is a nice middle ground between treating them like they're a different species and catering to them like they are royalty.
We gotta get you back to a normal black font!
 
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